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TLKC

In consideration of Adam's gay fans - from a female fan

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I finally got around to reading Sauli's 1st post on his new blog. A fan had posted it, in translation, on an Adam fan site.

Some of the comments were nasty, (several had been removed.) One of the posters, who was gay, deplored the general projection of middle-class notions of domesticity on Adam's relationship. The backlash was harsh but as, I read the back-and-forth, it suddenly struck me that we were missing the real reason this poster was upset.

Adam's relationship with his fans, most of whom are women, is somewhat unique in terms of jealousy . Because most of us know we don't have a hope in hell of being with him and we know we will never see him with another woman, we don't experience the pangs of jealousy or lonliness that female fans of John Mayer and James Blunt feel when they see their idol in a romantic relationship. Since we love Adam and want him to be happy, we tend to celebrate his relationships (friendships & partnerships) as sources of happiness, artistic creativity and fulfilment.

Thing is, Adam has a lot of gay fans, too, and, for them, Adam is a romantic fantasy. Seeing him with another guy is difficult and, unlike JB fans, they can't really find a lot of supportive fellow fans who are either cussing out the new lover, or more likely pretending she doesn't exist.

A gay Glambert goes on to fan boards or sites and finds himself 3 feet deep in Sauli photos, queries and glorifications of their relationship. So they get mad, say things they shouldn't and cancel subscriptions. I am not excusing their behaviour, just saying that I get it and maybe we shouldn't hit back so hard.

I think AO handles this well in tems of isolating threads to places where people with specific interests can go and play in relative peace without upsetting those who don't enjoy a particular path of enquiry. Other blogs, cannot or do not compartmentalize as effectively. It would be nice if they'd try but, barring that, I'm not going to flip out when someone who is not a fan of Sauli starts hitting on the relationship because maybe, just maybe, they are heartbroken and looking for a little sense of shared loss.

In the spirit of shared Adam-fandom, I'm going to tell them: NVM, none of us is likely to be with Adam anytime soon...

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@TLKC - You know, I never thought about it like the way you said it. You are absolutely right, it must be so painful for them being bombarded with pictures of the two of them. At least on this site Sauli is in Off Topics and not in their face.

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I was heartbroken when Bruce Springsteen got married the first time and then the second time. Now I see that my all-time idol, Paul McCartney is engaged to be married again. Why did he not find me when I am single and available now? lol Anyway, I think that in this age of internet,social media and too much information ,society needs to learn some restraint and respect in what they say as in real life. I truly wonder if that will ever happen.

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Hi TLKC - it's late and I'm tired, so should be long gone, and I have no idea what actually transpired on the fan site you're referring too, so probably don't know what I am talking about either - But, it is my opinion, and my experience of this fandom (not AO in particular) and people I know outside of any fan community - that Adam being gay doesn't remove him from being a romantic fantasy for straight women, or gay women for that matter, any more than it automatically makes him a romantic fantasy for gay men, or necessarily more likely to be so invested in the fantasy that they experience the level of jealousy or feelings that you're talking about - god, sorry, I hope that made some sense! - now I'm confused. :)

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flaminga: I so agree with you! The unattainable is so seductive.

katem: You are right - some women fantasize about Adam and not all gay fans are fantasizing about him. I'm just thinking that those who do fantasize must find it hard to go onto fan sites and see so much about Adam's relationship because his fan base is way more likely to celebrate his personal life than not. Bieber fans don't necessarily do that. In fact, I bet they engage in maximum denial.

papillon129: LOL - I used to be a major fan of Sting. No fan boards in those days but can honestly say that I would have been very dismayed to go onto boards about him and finds all sorts of stuff about Trudie Styler (so sad that I know his wife's name but there you go!) Must have killed you when he took up with his singer - she was onstage all the time!

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I KNOW Adam is gay but I think there are so many people that don't want him to be and maybe some think he's bi since he's made out w/women (Kesha--gag me) and left the ... that it COULD happen but it just hasn't. I would NEVER want him hiding it and I'm so proud of him for accepting it at 18 and living fully OUT all these years. In all honesty--I would not want him to hook up w/woman even if it just "happened". I think that would cause more issues. Kind of hard to believe it hasn't happened since he was living the "wild child" lifestyle for so long but he has been true to HIM which is commendable.

I believe he has changed the world. Paula said he would be iconic--and he is. He kissed Tommy on stage at AMA's, he held hands w/Sauli on the Red Carpet and he's taken the power out of the hands of the paps and ragmags by being out. If he was 'in the closet' they would be splashing all kinds of dirt on him and gossip but he stands PROUD and doesn't let them bully him. I can feel the acceptance happening as more and more people fight for equality whether they are gay or straight. He has made a difference.

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I personally am not really jealous of Adam's relationship with Sauli (maybe I am a little, if I'm being perfectly honest..lol) I'm so happy for him that he has someone that seems to love him as much as Adam loves him.

If he were in a relationship with a woman, I probably would be more jealous. (I'm jealous of the fact that he has made out with Kesha even, to the point that I really don't like Kesha now)

I can sympathize with Adam's gay male fans because I realize how upsetting it must be for them seeing all of these photos of he and Sauli all over. I'm very happy that the Sauli section is in it's own separate little place here at AO because he is a romantic fantasy for me and I might be a little more green with envy if every time I came here, I was bombarded by it.

I don't condone being nasty and hateful towards anyone, but I do understand what those fans might be feeling.

JMO

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As a gay woman, I'm not sure if you can say what "the real reason" is that the poster was upset. There is a tendency to heterosexualize gay relationships and in some ways they are the same and in some ways very different, depending on the relationship. I wouldn't say any of my relationships have been modeled after heterosexual relationships. One of the things we get to do is make up the rules because we don't have many role models. It is very common in gay male relationships for the bond to be based on things other than sexuality (especially after awhile) and often the partners have other lovers. (not in any way saying this is what Adam and Sauli are doing, because I don't have a clue.) What I am saying, is that it is very common. Maybe not quite as common as before AIDS, but common nonetheless. As far as jealousy issues play out, I don't think you quite hit the mark as far as the gay male community is considered. I'm just sayin' that it's a different type of thing, you can't just project heterosexual ideals on to homosexuals. We have some different ways with jealousy and especially with gay men it's not the same. Gay women, now we tend to go overboard in the jealousy dept. If you think about how men are raised, to be more internal with their feelings, etc, two men together make for a different sort of bond and two women, who are raised to be emotional, etc. take on a different feeling as well. Often we blend in to one another. I don't think the gay fan was over run with jealousy, I just think he didin't want to be put in a heterosexual box. This is all, of course, IMO

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To be perfectly blunt, but not in any way trying to be insensitive, anyone who publicly blows a cork over a celebrity's personal love life needs to do a reality check, gay or straight. Anyone who is so enmeshed in the private life of a celeb is walking a line that either borders on or has crossed into an unhealthy form of obsession.

I completely understand the joy felt by fans over any gay celeb's public display of a loving relationship, as it is a celebration of freedom and social progression. It is also understandable for any fan to be happy for any celeb they follow seeming to be happy in a relationship, gay or straight. Humans being happy for other humans' happiness is always a good thing. :smile: As long as they don't crash the celebrity wedding. :shocked:

But the converse of that, jealousy over a celeb's attachments, is not either normal or healthy. I'm not saying I don't understand the feelings that can fleetingly come up ( I experience them myself, but then either laugh at myself and/or slap myself, LOL), but taking them seriously and dwelling on them enough to post on a public message board, IMO, is a sign of an unhealthy obsession. (not talking about the joking around we tend to do here, I mean the serious ones).

As to the thoughts expressed in the OP about understanding the angry reactions of gays to straights' characterizations of gays' relationships, Adam's in particular, well, to some extent I can understand it in the context of getting disgusted with the attempts of straight people to put gay relationships in a box all tied up with a bow, which is what straight people do to straight relationships as well. But what I think is at the core of it is that it is really kind of intrusive to anyone's personal relationships for strangers to publicly label or characterize them. We are really strangers to Adam and have no real idea what goes on in his love or sex life. Nor are we entitled to. To assume the angry posts made towards straight fans about Adam and Sauli are due to jealousy is to not see the bigger picture, and to assume every angry gay poster is consumed with jealousy over Adam's love life is kind of insulting to gays, IMO. Maybe they are angry over the intrusiveness, period.

I worry about the Adam fans who are so invested in his love life. I worry about what they will do if Adam and Sauli break up. If what discorodeo says is true, and I think she is probably more well informed about the general state of gay relationships than any straight fan, then odds are Adam and Sauli may move on at some point, or take other lovers while still in the relationship. What are the Saulbert fans going to do if that happens and becomes public knowledge? Go over the deep end in misplaced grief? I fear so. It would be wise to take stock of how entrenched you are in your own version of Adam's love life and take steps to get detached.

I also think it's naive to assume most female Adam fans don't get jealous of his love life or sexual exploits simply because he's gay. I'm sure plenty do. Those who don't are making the mistake of trivializing gay relationships on some level. Should he ever have a relationship with a woman, it would seem more credible, more threatening to them? That's pretty sick, IMO. You don't have a chance with him either way. You're not a gay man. So it makes more sense that, if you're going to allow yourself to get that enmeshed that you get really jealous, hell, the gay guy is the one holding all the cards in this scenario, sister. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Better yet, see a therapist and get at the root of why you are deeply jealous of a celeb's love life in the first place. :shocked: And that goes for gays as well as straights.

Fantasies are so amazingly wonderful because they are NOT BASED ON REALITY. They have no barriers, no limitations. So why be jealous at all? Go with your fantasies and have a blast with Adam in your private moments. Who cares if he's with one guy or ten? Or even with a woman? The only thing you're ever gonna have with Adam is a fantasy! Gender is irrelevant in fantasy. So might as well make the best of it! :lol:

KatieJ

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Discorodeo: it did occur to me that the angry fan might have been politically motivated and I should have acknowledged that. I can see where hetero-imposed perspectives can be annoying to LGBT community members from a variety of perspectives. Also, It wasn't my intention to make an all-encompassing argument, just to point out that some gay men might find it difficult to wade through a lot of our clap trap.

Perhaps I shouldn't have titled the post with a reference to gay men, since a couple of women have pointed out that they might feel the same way.

Good thoughts!

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I agree with many of the points that KatieJ has made. Anyone, gay or staight, who becomes enmeshed in a celebrity crush to the point of feeling jealousy, has crossed a line and needs to do some self-examination. That's all I have to say on this issue.

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I'll be your date! :lol:

Like many, I had an awful crush on him when I was a teen. Those huge soulful Basset Hound eyes and that accent and voice just did me in.

But when he went solo, I couldn't stand his music. Still can't.

Can I still be your date? :lol:

KatieJ

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Sure! We can be the female version of Owen Wilson and Vince Vaughn in "Wedding Crashers." lol

Getting off Adam topic here but McCartney has put out some gems in the last years that were not played on the radio. His cd "Run,Devil, Run" is one of my favorites.

Getting back to Adam, my intellectual curiosity has been piqued. I am really interested in knowing how gay relationships differ from hetereo relationships. I heard Adam say in an interview once that he is aggressive and can be very jealous when in a relationship.

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Any one here remember Fabian? Ok, so I'm not a spring chicken, nor a wild turkey, but I was disgusting with that young man. I had every poster imaginable on my wall when I was young, and in grade school. I even had a Fabian pillow that I slept with every night. I was so into American Bandstand, and I was jealous of any girl that he even got next to. As I aged, I became more normal, and less childlike, and adjusted well into adulthood. However, if I woke up one morning, and Adam was on the news telling us that he was engaged to a woman, and she was going to have his baby, I probably would die. LOL

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If the point of this comment is that heterosexual fans should not impose their understanding/parameters of their relationships upon Adam's relationships, then someone is going to have to do a lot of education for those who are hetero and want to go cray-cray over every aspect of Adam's personal business. Is it mostly young people? Maybe Adam being the first openly gay performer signed to a label and his being a role model in that regard will help educate the masses about these matters. Personally, I think the people who get so into the intimate relationships of celebrities are a little strange. I dont want to upset anyone here, but even the hard core "kradam" fans really scared me. I didnt get the whole fanfic thing. But to each his/her own.

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It's nice that the OP wants to be more inclusive of gay male fans of Adam but I'm not sure that's the way to look at it. I dont think we can generalise about people - gay straight or whatever. The "gay male community" is a myth really. There are many different kinds of gay people just like there are many different kinds of straight people. Some gay couples stay together forever and are completely committed to each other. Others play the field. That's no different to straight people. Many gay people never have anything to do with the gay scene and just hang out with their friends and family, just like straight people. SOme gay men are very political and would be highly offended at the suggestion they get upset because a celeb has a boyfriend. Others might be total fanboys and flail just like some girl fans do. And some women are less inclined to be emotional while some men are less likely to internalise their feelings. There's no "common" behaviour or general standard for any of us and I wish we could all stop looking at gay people as some sort of "other" section of society.

I just get concerned when people start theorising on a general level like I'm seeing in this thread about such a diverse and varied range of people. A bit like seeing people talk about Adam's fans as if they were one homogenous group.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. Hope I didn't offend anyone - that wasn't my intention.

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i have no idea what those comments said but would have to agree that this is not a gender or sexuality issue but rather a personal one. there is a loss of boundaries that is promulgated by the very nature of internet based senses of "knowing" --- based on a non-stop flow of pics/gossip/vids etc. All this peering breeds a familiarity that feels like knowing/reality and that's a slippery slope. if this were not the case, particularly for those who are not youngsters (as in teens ;) ), i would agree that there is something very off about the degree of personal investment in a celebrity's life/love life that we often see displayed. for most of us it's fantasy/play. for others, the blurring of boundaries is more serious -- and disconcerting to others when they come across it-- as i imagine happened when u guys read the comments on sauli's blog.

there's no question that part of what makes a celebrity as opposed to a great singer/actor etc. is the degree to which he/she can elicit fantasies that bind others to him. there's an ineffable quality to that "ability" -- and i certainly appreciate its power. we all indulge, almost by definition, if we are here. OTOH, while there are surely differences in degree and kind, i'm not inclined to view them as having anything to do with (fan) sexual orientation. in fact, there's a case to be made that adam's sexual orientation makes him even more of a magnet for unbridled fantasies from women than from other gay men :) but that's another conversation.

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