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Welsh Fleur

Hand wringing, neg. vs. pos. debate, and bickering thread

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EDIT BY FLASHMOD:

This topic was started by me, Flash, not by Welsh Fleur. It seems the system recognizes the topic post and replies as the same, ordering them by time posted. Since I posted this thread after the posts that were subsequently moved here, those posts appear above my Topic post. So I am editing my original Topic post here into Welsh Fleur's post until the team can figure out how to change this system setting.

 

FLASH MOD original TOPIC POST:

 

 

In the interest of keeping the main boards free of the above (see title), this thread will serve as the depository for posts that have been made on the main boards that really have no business being on those boards in the first place; meaning I will move those posts to this thread when I come across them if they are not deleted as offensive.

 

Please members, let's keep the bickering posts, "true fan" finger-pointing posts, hand wringing "the sky is falling" posts, and any other kinds of downer discussions (those that make new members go "I'm outta here!") here in The Vent. It's not that your being necessarily discouraged from venting, expressing frustration, or sharing discouragement, etc., sure, there can be a place for that, but the main boards on Adam's Official site are not the place for such posts. Keep 'em here in The Vent and you won't find mods having to move them from their original threads. The Vent was created for just these kinds of discussions.

 

Thanks for your understanding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sweetygirly why so permanently miserable? There is a difference between being a pragmatist and a misery guts you know
Foxey that is fantastic thank you, amazing to see him in the top 20 let alone top 100

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Morning all from the Uk

 

HI Sweetygirl

 

You question about how many more albums do we think he has sold because of Queen- I couldn't possibly know that as I don't work in the industry and don't work for Adams team.

 

You said Queen fans would likely not buy music of a different genre- I already pointed this out when you asked about sales before.

 

We already expected it to drop in the second week I think somewhere that was posted

 

I don't believe anybody criticized you for saying the album would drop a lot in the second week. We were respectful to you and pointed out that we thought it was a negative way of thinking.

 

It has also been pointed out that the first week sales would be because fans were constantly streaming/ buying to get it debuted at a high position. Apologies if we didn't point this out in this thread I may be mistaken it may have been my thread 'TOH dropped to #31 in UK charts' but I am sure you have read the thread anyway so know that we are aware of this already.

 

It has also been pointed out by another poster that the second week is important for how the album is doing so we knew that as well.

Again I presume you think the album is going to stay low, it may rise again.

 

I believe that the Queen fans were intelligent enough to know that as Adam was already an artist in his own right he was singing and performing as he found was appropriate for that genre. These Queen fans were likely to have already looked him up after the NYE concert as 'Adam Lambert' was the most searched for word on Google on the 1st Jan and they are likely to have listened to at least 1 of his songs.

 

"Freddie was Freddie all the time"- Freddie was the lead singer of Queen he was not an individual artist so what you saw was what you always saw that was what he did, that was how he always performed, that was his persona on stage. Adam was performing Queen songs and like I said Im sure Queen fans have enough intelligence to appreciate this fact.

 

You pointed out Adele was hardly known in the US, however she was very well known and very successful in her own country the UK .This is a positive thing for her. Adam was not hugely successful ( not due to lack of talent) so most here knew nothing of him at all. When Adeles music came to the US she would have been looked up on YT and her success would have been noticed. If an artist is successful elsewhere it is easier for them to be successful in another country. Adam has difficulty because people know who he is and associate him with things that go against him like Idol, the way the press treated him and things I am not going to mention again.

 

I have already answered your initial question and pointed out once already that I have. I cannot answer your question regarding the US, Fleur and I can only answer that from our experience and we would like to take part in this discussion but as you address other issues people are going to address them as well. A post quite often branches off from its title this is what happens in discussion you cant keep coming back to the same thing and expecting people to answer again.

 

Do you work in the industry? If so you know a lot about sales and percentages why are you asking for peoples opinions why do you not just tell us why it did or didn't help instead of insisting on coming back to the initial question that members have already given their opinion on?

Is it because as Adams position has dropped like you thought it would.

 

I just do not understand that even when you are putting the question to members again, you are still writing a negative post alongside it.

As I have highlighted above a lot of the content of your post was already posted by other members previously so why not just post the issues that haven't been addressed like the issue of Adele being unknown and still successful had not already been discussed so it was relevant in your post.

 

I have not criticized you, I have answered your questions and addressed points already made in a respectful manner and in the same way I would address any other member on this forum.

 

If you think others disagreeing with your feelings and points on this matter is criticism then you should not start a post that asks for opinions and as Ive pointed out it is the natural course of a thread to divert from the original post in most cases it does not stick to the post title.

 

I have already said I did not want to get into this negative discussion again and I have done just that unfortunately, so I will not post on this thread anymore unless it becomes a more positive place to be.

 

Karen x

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There was nothing personal in my post this is where language doesn't translate between our 2 nations, Misery guts is as follows, something my Granny would always say and Grannies don't say nasty things!(British, informal) if you describe someone as a misery guts, you mean they are miserable when they could or should be happy , in other words I am not sure why they are so unhappy in every post when everyone else is happy?

It is often also accompanied by "you could park a double decker on that bottom lip" always said with a smile or a chuckle on the face of the person saying it.

I guess it doesn't translate well but no offence was ever intended

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Fleur as far as I was concerned it definately wasnt that.

misery guts is not insulting at all its used generally within families and is like teasing someone. Its completely harmless.

Karen x

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koula 19-You may have answered my question. When I posted the topic, I was looking for responses from more than one person. I don't think it is a bad thing to take the thread back to the original question, even if the topic has shifted. Similar responses get posted often in the same thread and in other threads. You make it seem like I shouldn't ask others for opinions once someone has mentioned something or if someone gave an answer to my questions.

 

Asking a positive question where everyone responds "yes" can be a boring topic. I am trying to ask a thoughtful questions that may have some positive and negative responses. If you have already responded to my question, you can move on to another post. I write about the realities of the music business and what effects various factors could have on the relative success of Adam's album and single. I actually value the opinion of others, and I learn from what is posted. I revel in Adam's success just as everyone else here does. I know that happened to TP and I don't want to see that happen again. I know that his promotion is better this time, but that didn't prevent the album from dropping a lot the second week.

 

I asked a relevant question that can have an abundance of different answers, and that is what I would like to see. The reason I include practical issues is to evoke thought in the responder. If you thought that I repeated a question that I originally asked, that was to remind people of what the original question was on the fourth page of the thread, since the thread had gone off topic. If people want to discuss other issues on this thread, that doesn't mean that I am criticizing them for doing that. If people want to discuss other issues, they can post it as a new topic.

 

I learned here that GT was at the top of the AC Top 40 as the song with the most positive impressions. That is fabulous.

 

The reason why I am focusing on the US is because Adam was a known entity with 2 albums out when he toured with Queen. I believe one of the reasons Adam did the Queen tour was to expose himself to new and old fans in a new and different way than he had been known before. You don't have to be in the music business to have an opinion about the effect the tour might have had on the success of his album.

 

I really don't need to be told about what has been posted here, there and everywhere. I also don't need to read an analysis of why I asked certain questions. You wrote that I posted a negative comment that the album would fall in the second week, and then you started a thread that the album fell to #31 on the UK charts the second week. So, it was negative when I posted a true statement, but it wasn't negative to start a post about what I predicted would happen? I people in the UK looked Adam up and listened to one of his songs, did they decide that Adam only sang in that genre?

 

Adam did some promo in the UK for his first two albums. He was on Johnathan Ross and Graham Norton. Wouldn't people in the UK who heard him sing have looked him up and known of him in the UK before the Queen tour from that? Adam did three nights with Queen in 2012, yet people say he was a relative unknown in the UK before the 2015 tour. When I asked about Adele, you commented that people in the US would have looked her up and that would have introduced them to her music, leading to her selling a lot of albums in the US. Wouldn't it be the same for Adam in the UK?

 

I think your post was criticism and I don't think it was written in a respectful way. Your post was a lecture to me about your dos and don'ts of posting a comment in a thread.  If you live in a world where everything has to be positive all the time, I hope you don't crash and burn when something negative happens.

 

You wrote "I believe that the Queen fans were intelligent enough to know that as Adam was already an artist in his own right he was singing and performing as he found was appropriate for that genre. These Queen fans were likely to have already looked him up after the NYE concert as 'Adam Lambert' was the most searched for word on Google on the 1st Jan and they are likely to have listened to at least 1 of his songs." The first sentence made no sense. I have read comments from Queen fans where they say that they had no idea who Adam was before they saw the concert. I don't understand the relevance of the second sentence.

 

I really think that your entire post was unnecessary. I normally would not post this kind of response on a forum. I had to respond because I feel your post was biting and reductive.

 

I welcome respectful responses to my original question.

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Sweetygirly, I didn't see any disrespect intended in Karen's post either. From my point of view, you've posed a difficult set of questions and I haven't been able to come up with anything better or different from what other fans have already posted. I think a bit of thoughtful controversy can be interesting and, as you've said, lock-step positivity can be "boring." Still, I just don't seem to be able to come up with a reply that might satisfy.

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This makes two threads now in which one particular member is being targeted concerning her posting style, which doesn't make for a welcoming forum. Though it would be nice if everyone had a glass half full approach to being a fan it's unrealistic to expect that everyone will take the same view. The best way to persuade others to see the glass as half full is simply to post that way yourself rather than point fingers at other members. And keep in mind that when you point a finger you have three fingers pointing back at yourself. It's a bit disingenuous to point a finger at another member for having a negative approach if you've posted negative topics yourself. ;)

 

Moving the debate to The Vent, where these kinds of discussions should be taking place.

Edited by Flash Mod
Clarification

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My post was not negative. It just wasn't sunshine and flowers. What I had a problem with in the post I commented on was the lecture that I had posted things before, that I always post negative things and that my questions had already been answered and the "I told you so." There are ways to be disrespectful without using profanity and harsh words. I would never post about someone else but if I am disrespected as I believe I was, I  will call someone out on it. I don't see any need to proactively post negative things about the manner in which something was posted. If you don't like it, move along.

 

I do appreciate hearing what people think the QAL tour did to help Adam. If there are people here from other countries, please respond as well. I know that Adam did do some promotion in Europe before. I would like to know if he is known in other countries from his previous work and if the QAL tour made him known.  Also, how are the album and the single doing in other countries?

 

For those in the UK, how did  FYE do on the charts? Was Adam known from that promotion? Did people forget about him? Do you see his US promotion on UK tv?

 

I don't think it is necessary to comment on the post or my response any more. I want this to be a positive thread.

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Life is not all sugar and spice and everything nice. I respect a forum where various points of view are appreciated, be they positive or negative. If you want a YAY all the time forum, post a topic and make everyone post YAY. If YAY is good at #16, what do you say about dropping to say #75-yay? Do you not comment about that at all because it isn't positive? When I say I am practical, maybe a better word is realistic. Stuff happens. Should no one make a prediction about what might happen? Is that taboo? And, when that person was absolutely right about what she said, should you still call her negative? Life is full of ups and downs and I am sure that Adam can deal with it, Can you?

 

Posting a negative comment about what someone posted is BEING NEGATIVE!

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Life is not all sugar and spice and everything nice. I respect a forum where various points of view are appreciated, be they positive or negative. If you want a YAY all the time forum, post a topic and make everyone post YAY. If YAY is good at #16, what do you say about dropping to say #75-yay? Do you not comment about that at all because it isn't positive? When I say I am practical, maybe a better word is realistic. Stuff happens. Should no one make a prediction about what might happen? Is that taboo? And, when that person was absolutely right about what she said, should you still call her negative? Life is full of ups and downs and I am sure that Adam can deal with it, Can you?

 

Posting a negative comment about what someone posted is BEING NEGATIVE!

Negative and positive is as much in the eye of the beholder as the person posting, so I guess what we need to focus on is being as kind to each other as Adam frequently asks us to do. :wub:

 

You are right - there isn't always a positive side to things, but I personally am drawn to the positive and that's why I follow Adam as a fan, rather than just buying one or two songs or albums and not caring about him as a person - he has helped me to view things from a what is good rather than a what is bad perspective, by his example and what he talks about in interviews.

 

I guess the dropping places on the chart example comes down to being as you say, "realistic" - while it might not be a YAY!  it might also be seen in perspective with what normally happens in that space including other artists who charted higher first week and dropped further,  what other artists are also in the competition who might be more well known & have a more widely established audience to sustain the original charting high.

 

And using your own logic, posting a negative comment about what someone else posted could be seen as being realistic?  :unsure:     Anyways, your comments always make me think and seem to come from a place of caring about Adam, which is why we are all here, eh? <_<

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I also post on another fan site that allows anon posting, so it can get a quite wild there sometimes.  The regulars are fine, but sometimes some anon steps in to just stir the pot and make people unhappy.

 

I have found this to be true about people who post negative or unhappy news:

 

A true Adam fan may post some info about a song that is falling down on the charts, for example, but they will also add that they hope the situation improves and that things will get better. They usually add that they love Adam and will always support him.

 

In contrast, someone who may not be a true fan (troll or just a downer-type), will post about some "less than good" thing that is happening, but they will express no support for Adam. In fact they often accuse true fans of being naïve and unrealistic and even stupid for not "believing the truth" or something to that effect. They express no hope for better news or a desire to make other positive comments about Adam.  I would hope that sincere fans will continue to post all kinds of news and express their feelings, but at the same time show support for Adam through it all.  Sometimes, a simple "JMO" will keep things in perspective.

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I have only ever found Joy in all things Adam Lambert related, I am a pragmatic individual, highly educated, but everything about Adam Lambert makes me happy and I guess I will never understand when the joy gets sucked out of it.
No intention of joining in joy sucking posts, something has been lost in the last couple of days IMHO 

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